Thanks for the welcome! I live in Florida City

Pretty good to hear you’ve been in this country. How’d you beat the heat?

My upline’s been in FL (4ever living) for a month I think before getting me. He really buys into the stuff of the seminars. I though had a more disagreeing mind. They say things like “don’t listen to negative people”, sort of like “don’t listen to anyone outside of FL”. Sounds cultic, doesn’t it? I thought, maybe I could continue anyway without really believing in the seminar stuff, but the uplines tend to be touchy when I’m disagreeing. It’s tough.

Thanks again.

First of all

I believe that the message (accurate, too) of every great faith of the world, and especially of Judeo-Christianity, is not JUST that you should be “good” and make “sacrifices for your fellow man” and “be altruistic” out of some FEAR of God’s wrath, or even because “good” is “better”—I believe that these faiths, again accurately, say also that being good is ACTUALLY BETTER FOR YOU, too. That the very act of giving, caring, sharing, and helping creates POSITIVE effects in YOUR OWN life, your own health, your own wealth. Now I know that you NTY-vets are hearing that old saw about “The way to get what YOU want is to help others get what they want” coming on, but Ziz Ziglar didn’t invent it, and NTY co-opts lots of truths for its own lies’ sake.

But again, it isn’t just that doing good helps the person you’re helping, it is that the very act of doing it benefits, enobles, and enlightens YOU, and this brings us to a classic philosophical issue–the difference between intent and behavior.

There’s a pretty great local talk show guy here in L.A. named Dennis Prager who takes the issues of the day and puts them in an ethical and moral and religious context rather than merely a political one as most do. HE says that the measure of someone’s goodness is much more about their behavior than their intent or ideology. In other words, he’d rather have an avowed Nazi whose actions actually save lives or cure the sick or help people than an avowed Christian who murders, harms, or hurts. His point, relevant to our discussion of NTY “leaders” who claim to be doing the evil they do “for your own good” is that the bottom line is the behavior, not the nice words and self-justifying speeches.

NY taxes

So, I would suggest, for example, that whether or not it cost or profited Ruth to begin and sustain her righteous crusade against the crooks of NTY, it was the ongoing BEHAVIOR of doing so that mattered and still matters, and enobles her and actually benefits her in ways that mere money can never measure. On the other hand, if she had carried on sustaining her employers while KNOWING of their evil and somehow justifying it on the grounds that it was paying her bills or supporting her family, she’d be a horrible hypocrite, and not the Ruth we know, and it would corrupt her soul in ways again that money cannot measure.

So, my thesis is this: You are what you DO, not just what you say, and the results of altruism and sacrifice are NOT just about the receptor of your actions–they are MORE about what positive energy they give YOU, so they are, in an interesting and loving way, “greedy” and “self-serving” while they serve the person you help and the community of man at large.


all I can say is that if you want to be fooled by snake oil merchants, you’re going to be fooled by snake oil merchants.

It’s your life and your money.

Since you don’t trust “traditional doctors” you’re going to leave yourself open to anybody who can give you some modicum of relief, irrespective of how damaging that relief is.

And how will you know it’s damaging…you won’t because you have closed yourself off from science by swallowing the lie sold by the snake-oil merchants, MLMers and woomeisters that doctors and “Big pHarma” is eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

So, good luck with your energy meridians and parting with your cash for this brand of woo.

When you finally run out of money and they cast your off, science will still be there to help you.

I don’t trust the traditional doctors at all–

even less than the natural people. The traditional ones are the reason I am very sick — been taking anti-seizure med. since I was 10. The short and long term side effects have been horrible. I have asked several of them about the sickness that I have and they’ve all said that they don’t know or tell me that it’s all in my head. Some of the natural people say its fibromyalgia/chonic fatigue syndrome or some other similar label.
It’s not that either. I’ve been thinking it is more than one thing because when you have something like this long enough, more things follow. I am so tired and in so much pain that I haven’t able to use my college degree in illustration and grapics and have been doing temp jobs instead. That’s how mad I am at traditional docs and especially the pharmacuticals that push the drugs — “ask your doctor” to give you this drug, the commercials say….they make it look like you’ll be in absolute bliss. Ya, whatever. I refuse to take any more drugs — especially on a long term basis — they’ll just make you more sick and kill you faster. This long research about natural medicine is not a hobby. I’m just trying to find some relief, make a decent living(thus the intrest in possibly doing an MLM) and get my life back. If I break a bone or something like that, then I’ll go to the trad. doc. Other than that — no way. I beleive that natural remedies are safe if you educate yourself about them and use them wisely, otherwise, they’ll make you sick too.
Recently, I finally found a bioenergetic practitioner and they scanned the energy meridians of my body. One of the things it said was that I’m not a true epileptic and that the seizures were induced by vaccinations. It also said that the pain is bacteria in my connective tissues. So I don’t know if they’re right yet, but I’m giving it a try.

I’ve got to agree with this one

I will always trust my doctor over a snake oil salesman. Funny story, sorta related. My old doctor was at least honest. I was taking Nexium for acid reflux. It was brand new. The general practice was to be on it for a few months, then step down to a lesser drug. Well, for me, when I stepped down to the lesser drug, all of my symptoms came back. I asked if I needed to stop taking it, because it helped. He said that the drug was too new and they really didn’t KNOW yet if there were any long term issues with continued use. So we talked and he kind of left it up to me. I took it for two YEARS before being able to stop. I had no problems. Yippee! But now another two years or so later and i have to get back on it.

My point is that, my doctor was honest about what he knew and what he didn’t know. And the use was based on an individualized situation and discussion. With specific knowledge of my health and plenty of tests to be sure I didn’t have other problems besides acid reflux.

I am sure there is an MLM salesman who would be willing to bet that all my problems would be solved if I took their miracle supplement. If it was such a miracle, I am sure my doc would have heard about it.

I suspect a good part of this story has reached urban myth status

I don’t know if there was actually a story like this in National Geographic, but there was one about a city in the then USSR exactly like this, but I do question whether ages were changed to dodge the draft for a couple reasons. One is that the women were just as old as the men and two, late in WWII, Russia was also going through their revolution. Age didn’t make a difference. Some forums would grab kids and force them out on the front lines because (among other reasons), the enemy might be reluctant to shoot at children.

At that time there was no “draft” like we have. No registration for it, not checking of age. If you were an able bodied man, you could be taken in by an army of any particular type (and there were a lot of factions). While fighting in WWI was tough, it might actually be preferable to fighting in the Revolution. Those who fled to avoid fighting in WWI would easily be picked up and forced to serve, regardless of their age.

There are two scenes in Doctor Zhivago that people may remember that illustrate this. The first is when Yuri Zhivago is on his way home from the city to his family’s home in the country and men show up on horses and basically tell him they need a doctor and he’s coming with them. He doesn’t even have the chance to let his family know what is happening, he’s just taken and suddenly he’s a member of one of the armies, whether he is on their side or not.

Another is later, while he’s serving, when they’ve had to kill soldiers in another army to get through a field and when they’re riding through, they see the soldiers they’ve just killed are children.

I don’t know a lot about how Russia picked soldiers for WWI, but I seriously doubt they cared much about age. I’m sure some history buff can correct me on this if I’m wrong, but since records weren’t as clear then as now, I would think they’d just grab able bodied men without worrying too much about their age. I may be wrong on this point for soldiers in WWI, but considering the Revolution started just a few years later, I would think the recruiting methods wouldn’t be too different.

Curiously it is those reasons

you express below that MLMs would _like_ you to believe about Quackwatch. It’s about decrediting the experts so that they can peddle their claims and have victims I mean “customers” unaware, or rather, ignoring any negative information to counter the claims of the MLM.

What I suggest is that in the future that you look at “traditional doctors and the drug business” and see what they are actually trying to do, which is help, rather than do what MLMs would like you to do; which is give the MLM your hard earned cash.

I personally have found Quackwatch to be an excellent source of information.

WOW!! Was the MLM Young Living??

I read about them on Quackwatch(some scary stuff), but I took it with a grain of salt because some traditional doctors and the drug business don’t like the natural ones taking business from them. How did you find out about it if it wasn’t on the label? What other stuff did you find out?

Here is a funny story about these nutritional MLMs and others too. If you go to Amazon and read the details of the short story on the front page of the book yourself, it is really funny:

I saw this book “What your doctor hasn’t told you and the health store clerk doesn’t know”(shopping smart for alternative medicine) on highvibe.com (raw food, ect. store in NY). The first story that the author told reminded me of all the many nutritional MLM’s that sell a superfruit drink with all of their glorious glacial mountain or tropic exotic island stories to go along with it. The author told a story about a harvard doctor, who wrote an article for a 70’s Nat.
Geograpic mag. He described the extaordinary healthy, long-lived life spans of these mountain dwellers. Everyone wanted to know the secret to their longevity. Some wondered if it was the mountain soil, enriched with the glacial water. They started selling millions of $$ worth of supplements based on this theory. It turned out that this was not true — the doctor had no evidence and no one else had bothered to check the facts. The truth was, these long-lived villagers weren’t living to 130 or even 110. They weren’t doing anything extra special for their health. They were draft dodgers from when Russia was drafting for World War I. They added some years to their true age and claimed they were too old for the draft. So their false longevity was caused by lying.

Let me tell you a little story

about that essential oil MLM that everyone trusts so much (I did too once). I started using their products years ago when I was pregnant with my now 9 year old son. I used their “non toxic” shampoo on my babies only to find out “oops” there really ARE all these toxic chemicals in the products and the MLM just “didn’t know”. They weren’t listed on the ingredients label and the MLM claimed the manufacturer was using them without their knowledge. Nice. That was the beginning of the myriad of reasons to not trust that particular MLM.

I can share with you some places to find really good (even organic) essential oils online in much better prices that you’re seeing at that MLM. I’m not sure if I’m allowed to post the link so the company name (easily googled) of my favorite place is Mountain Rose Herbs in Oregon. I also buy all my herbs/spices (organic) in bulk from them…you can’t beat the savings, even with shipping (just get some neighbors to join in and split the bulk packages).

I make most of my own cleaners. White vinegar is your friend! Simply put some vinegar and water in a spray bottle and voila…you have your window cleaner (since you’re an EO fan, add some lemon for good measure).
Cheaper than any natural cleaner you could buy. 🙂

I have more tips…will be happy to share but I think this is veering WAY off topic so email me if you want some more of my homemade recipes for cleaning.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by “affiliate program”

There are affiliate programs that would be similar to rewards programs. If you purchase enough stuff on your credit card, you get discounts at certain retailers. If you accumulate enough mileage on an airline miles program, you can fly with any of their affiliates, which might include other airlines or rental car agencies or cruise lines or other types of businesses.

There are also buyer’s club-type programs in which you can purchase brand-name items at discounts by virtue of your membership.

The “affiliate programs” that give us pause (if I may speak for others here) are the ones that promise income for your involvement. There is a huge difference between being involved in a program as a consumer or as a member and being involved in it as a representative or an employee.

And some affiliate programs go out of their way to blur that distinction. Some of them even blur the nature of their relationships with other businesses that are affiliated with them. A/Q is the main example that comes to mind. There are many businesses that have a business relationship with A/Q, but to hear an IBO promoting it, you’d think it was a partnership. They are NOT partners, but IBOs think they are.

So the admonition to beware of these programs is not a condemnation of them, but it is solid advice to keep your eyes open for what it is they are trying to sell – products & services, or an “income opportunity.”